...here is a list (constantly being updated) of b-b-b-b-b-b-bad surfboards. These popouts are manufactured, not shaped, by people who don't surf. So now you know if your board was made in Thailand, China, Slovakia or Vietnam, instead of "Australia" like that shop told you...
Friday, May 11, 2007
have you been duped???
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47 comments:
Thank you.
Not that I ride anything but homemade, but thanks.
Hope it works out in the end for you guys, the real shapers.
thank you, i will never, never ride one of those boards. down with pop outs!!
how do these non surfer manufacturers in the 3rd world countries even begin to 'know' how to shape a board? imitation I guess...
That's the problem, they don't know how to shape. THEY ARE NOT SHAPED BUT IN FACT POPPED-OUT OF MOLDS! HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
i wouldnt care if they knew how to shape as well as the good guys, the fact is pop outs are destroying surf culture.
Some of those label names are just painful. I mean, American?
arrrgh!
Please add Dragonfly surfboards ( http://www.dragonflysport.com/ )
what about boards shaped in those and other countries (like brasil) that aren't actually popouts? i've read about shapers in china that are supposedly pretty good doing stuff for US companies. and I know that M10 has most of their boards shaped in Brasil. because the cost of labor is so cheap in 3rd world countries this trend will only increase. popouts are not the only issue here...
Get a life. It's the American way. I personally wouldn't want to go back to hand shaping balsa as I did in the late 50's! The question is for the price how do they ride?
Support surfer labor.
well, I don't know about you guys, but I think a Point Break board would be bitchin!! I want it painted like a 57' Chevy!
There's no reason a learner should have to buy a $600-$800 board. The hand-shaped boards will always be better so it's not like they're dissappearing. Pop-outs are not destroying surf culture. Why not let beginners and people who only surf a few times a year, buy a $300-$400 pop-out? You guys think you're so cool but you're really just being an unnecessarily angry tool. Grow up. There's more to life than trying to be cool. Be kind.
Here's to being kind: You are an idiot! We sell hand-shaped beginner boards for $300-$400 that are made right here in South Carolina by an experienced shaper. And what about the used board? That was good enough for me when I was a beginner because I couldn't justify spending $600-$800 either.
You don't know anything about surf culture if you can't see how these pop-outs are affecting it.
Be kind, support China and all the wonderful things they do for the world and their people. I beg you, please do not have offspring. We are doomed enough as it is.
Money is always an issue. If you want a custom board the cost is justifiable. But if surfin is just a hobby or if you don't think an 1/16th of an inch here or there really matters why spend an extra 100 bucks on a board? Yes custom boards are better but if I'm buying off the shelf the board will not be tailored to me so why not save a 100 bucks. If you are that worried about pop-outs drop your prices and I'm sure all the pop-out companies will go out of buisness.
Joel Tudor is coming out with Surftech-Tuflite Models in December! Believe it! We will most likely see Skip Frye coming with some models in the near future as well. The Truth hurts but it is Reality! It is happening and will continue to happen.
I was shocked to say the least when I saw that Joel was doing those pieces of s*@#.
anyone ever herd of white trash surfboards? matt .......are they any good its a 6'0- {18 1/4} brand new , it is quite beautiful but i was freshly tattoed. it sucks,,,shiout out to pump house on tha singer island,fl
anyone ever herd of white trash surfboards? matt .......are they any good its a 6'0- {18 1/4} brand new , it is quite beautiful but i was freshly tattoed. it sucks,,,shiout out to pump house on tha singer island,fl
Are Stoked Surfboards also pop outs?
I'm willing to bet that Stoked Surfboards are popouts. "low overhead" and "bulk ordering" should be obvious tip-offs. See for yourself:
http://www.stokedsurfboards.com/?gclid=CN_JvK6KgJACFQlxOAodUGArtQ
Ian,
Show a little passion. I've been surfing for 40 years. I have two custom made eps boards, one Walden boardworks and two eps hand shaped boards from Stoked. The custom epoxy boards are from a shaper in FL, who also shapes for RC. Pop outs by the way are molded boards, and are not hand shaped. Pop outs have nothing to do with the type of resin or the foam. It has to do with the process. If you or others want some good inight into today's shaping and shapers, there's a great article in the most recent Surfing Magazine. Rusty has some interesting things to say about what you call pop outs. Everone has a right to their opinion on what type of board works best, but at least be accurate with the information you are putting out there.
BH, I have a lot of passion if you haven't noticed. After examining the website for Stoked, I concur that they are most likely popouts,and like I said "willing to bet". Call it an educated guess. Do you know any other shapers like the guys at Stoked Surfboards that have discontinued shapes? Sounds like a container mix-up to me.
And you have a "custom" Boardworks? Prove it. Sure custom composites will be available someday, or even now for lots of money. Other than that, all the filler in between is guess what? Non-customizable popouts.
And the last 20 Waldens I've seen have had "Made in Thailand" laminates.
And a popout is also a molded blank touched by a little piece of snadpaper, glassed and shellacked in China, or Slovakia or whatever. It's mass production, like the 40,000 back stock of surfboards at the Cobra Factory waiting to be unleashed on someone for real cheap. That will really boost the economy some more.
Many of you have been fleeced. You make your own decisions, I'm just putting out the "caveat emptor" message for those who are new to the game.
I'm not saying I have all the answers, far from that. Just some insight into the future.
Ian
Like I said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I didn't say my Walden was custom - it's boardworks- I have two custom epoxy boards from a shaper in FL. Walden Epoxy boards are no longer made by boardworks - they are GSI, but I'm sure you knew that. The closing of Clark has opened up some new opportunities for new technologies in board design and people that want to get into the sport. Why not be a little more open minded and less angry, and by the way there is no-one more passionate about this sport than I am. I'm willing to try new things, and will probably by another custom pu board at some point, but I will decide what I want to pay. Maybe I'll bump into you at the surf expo in Orlando if you are part of the industry.
BH,
I am opened to all types of surfboard development and make my opinions only after trying these surfboards for myself. The main idea is that mass production of the molded boards isn't going to enhance the surfboards future, but in fact hold it back. Our whole stance on the popouts is simply to preserve the "customizable" option of buying a surfboard for yourself. We would support customizable composites 100%. No doubt.
I just got a completely custom board from Stoked... you must have your facts wrong. Better double check your source before you spout off.
read the comments before you post and then talk to me about "spouting off" hypocrite
I did read the comments before I posted. You said, "they are most likely popouts," I was just helping you out... Not popouts. Every surf company has some stock shapes don't they? Maybe this explains their discontinued?
BTW, I like the list you put together, how come you dont have, Channel Islands, Rusty, Hobbie, Bruce Jones, Stewart, Robert August, ...lost, on the list? They are all made overseas now too.
...lost and Channel Islands are made overseas? That means the lost factory I was at in San Clemente was all an elaborate front ala the Matrix?
"Every surf company has some stock shapes don't they? Maybe this explains their discontinued?" Weak argument.
I haven't updated the list because it cuts into my "flower time" blog. You can't outsource flowers, so I'll have a life-long passion that is virtually untarnishable...
But really, you can't trust anyone in the surf industry and there are alot of rumors constantly circulating about major labels going overseas. You just have to wait and see.
You're right they have CA manufacturing too, just like Firewire does.
I wish I could prove you wrong, but its all rumors with no evidence.
To all the "no-popout" guys:
You guys need to come up with more coherent arguments. You cloak your anti-Asian protectionism in the rhetoric of a concern for "surfing culture" when in reality, competion always gives consumers more options and spurs manufacturers to make better quality products. In my neck of the woods (SoCal), surfing culture has never been more vibrant, and there's simply no credible criteria by which you can claim otherwise.
BTW, I make my own boards and have, off and on, for 35 years. Swaylocks is full of guys like me (another thriving bit of surf culture). I greatly admire the art and craft of master shapers and glassers, but just don't have much sympathy for those who whine about international competition. Two common features of these complaints are: (1) the appeal to irrelevancies like "those Asians don't even surf" -- as if this had anything to do with the quality of their product; and (2) falsehoods like, "they don't know how to shape," when in truth, if they didn't know how to shape, you wouldn't be worrying about them.
Those 2 points are hardly the main argument. Anti-asian? If we were anti-asian A) We wouldn't have an Asian girl working here or B)we wouldn't have any surf-brand clothing to sell either.
Its about those who MAKE A LIVING shaping surfboards and running glass shops in the United States and make a far superior product than your overseas mass produced boards. Its about educating the consumers about what you're getting for what price and why. You won't find surfboards in Consumers Reports, and once someone gets burned by some poor quality overseas board, they are going to be less likely to buy a custom epoxy or polyester board and go for the molded pop-out.
I think Swaylocks is a great part of the surf culture, and I think more people should try to make their own boards. But on the other hand you would have different perspective if you were trying to make a living shaping boards. We are just trying to support our friends in their efforts to live the complete lifestyle instead of letting some suit get rich exploiting what we love.
I am getting into this discussion kind of late, but I'd just like to share some "no popouts" observations. About 42 years ago, I bought a 9'6" Whitehead (or Whitehouse) with an aluminum skeg. It was bult in Texas, and it was a total popout, built with fiberglass boat building technology. But, I learned to surf on it. After two seasons, I was riding a second hand Rick Plastic fantic V-Bottom. Also made in the USA. The list goes on for the next 40 years.
Bottom line, I needed something to learn how to surf on, that I could afford. It took me years to get past buying second hand, hand made boards after I got started, but I started on a classic popout. I would never think of buying one today.
When my son was sixteen, and wanted a 'new'board instead of a second hand board, he bought a Chinese made Challenger. It worked fine, until it delaminated, and then he needed a 'real' surfboard.
There always has been, and always will be, a market for junk surfboards. As long as people really care about surfing, that market will always be limited, and real, surfing, shapers and glassers will always prevail.
I've surfed Dragonfly surfboards and they ride well. Unfortunately, surfboards are relatively expensive, but people can afford the popouts. I say if it works it works...
I understand your concerns.
With you it is all about keeping the glass board shapers/glassers in business.
The guy who shapes the blank for the popout, (original board), does surf. And if you have ever had custom boards made, Stewart, Allison, and Endres, They will do what they usually do with the shape.
Regardless what you ask for.
They generally will not duplicate, their older shapes! (They claim they have moved beyond that shape)
If poly. boards were not such throw away boards, They and you, would not be worried. Glass boards last about two season before you have to deal with pressure dings, delams. and crushed decks. If you are sponsored, it's no problem.
I have had Surftec boards last SIX YEARS before breaking down!
It's good to have a few of both in your quiver.
And if you are a beginner, with a glass board, it will spend more time being repaired than in the water. You need to spend equal time
protecting your customers as you do
your shapers/board mfr's.
Bottom line, use what works for you and last the longest! The rest is B.S.
Human rights is b.s., you're totally right. And how's that economy working out right now? Yeah, buy from Thailand and China.
I have polyester boards older than 6 years old, as do many people. You just have to take care of them.
Googled 'popouts'... found this thread... whoa.
If you title a blog as something purely anti: 'no popouts, have you been duped?' you are invariably going to attract more questions about 'why no popouts?, and fewer questions about 'why custom, local shaped boards?' Wouldn't you like more discussion centered on the latter question?
I only own custom boards, but that's my choice. In an effort to explain it and may be help what I think you're trying to accomplish, here's just a few suggestions...
Maybe you should be more positive on custom boards and shapers and less negative on who you perceive to be doing you and yours harm (manufacturers that do both custom and pop-outs, whole countries, etc.). Perhaps expand on how local shapers will invariably be more familiar with the local breaks and know 'what' works and 'where' it works. Often you can get custom boards from a local shaper that are cheaper than the big names (pop-out or otherwise), work better for you, and are tax free. It can be much cheaper if that shaper also glasses.
I mean, I get that there are some real big issues out there that you could use to try and make an argument against pop-outs (human rights, the economy, the environment, etc.), but it really seems out of place and you're left trying to defend yourself: 'I'm not racist because I hire Asians.' (which, by the way, is the worst defense ever). McCarthy-style pop-out blacklists are only going to put you on the defense, too.
I've found that surfing equipment choice is incredibly personal and subjective, and often times overwhelming due to the variety. The act of surfing itself is very personal and expressive. Work to that strength... make the purchase of a board an extension of that personal expression... get to know your local shapers. Chances are they are hurting a bit for business and your engaging them is going to inspire them to shape something spectacular, by nature unique and just for you... and maybe they'll give you a great deal to boot!
Cheers!
"'I'm not racist because I hire Asians.' (which, by the way, is the worst defense ever)."
Guess you missed the joke, but apparently you have all the answers to everything else. You're telling me how to run my blog and how a proper custom surfboard campaign should be run: start your own blog. Why are you googling "popouts" anyway?
I was reading this blog..great stuff. For the record on some earlier comments.
Stoked surfboards now called degree 33 surfboards are pop outs and made in China. Not only that but the company is kook central...guys riding boards from Stoked, degree 33 etc...should be snaked on every wave.
it's jerome from france, i don't like popup, i bought one and didnt
surf it to buy another clark one.
the major problem is tha you dont know if there is water inside board
and when you surf clark you must
have to respect it and don't surf it like a bear so your surf level
goes up!
Guys...pretty classic thread on the kooks at stoked / degree 33 surfboards
http://hubpages.com/hub/Stoked-Surfboards
oh, and now stoked surfboards goes by Degree 33. http://www.degree33surfboards.com/ . You can get there by the old web address www.stokesufboards.com as well. Trying to desguise themselves from all their bad, pop-out criticism.
@Big Nick and Anonymous; It was pretty funny that they guy Luc Stokes and his Wife Holly from D33 claim that their boards are from "overseas" and never mention that they are from China. Then they claim that they use Australian foam, so you'll think that the boards are made in Australia. They also say that they use USA resin (BullSh!+). So they put some pictures on the site claiming that they have master shapers. and you can see that the guy is Asian they never show his face or interview him and he is clearly wearing a "DRAGONFLY SURFBOARDS TEE SHIRT"!! I don't know how long they have had these pictures posted on their site but I bet you one they read this they will photoshop it out. http://www.degree33surfboards.com/DSC_0170.JPG
Douchebags! Just come out and say the truth Our boards are made in China!!! We buy them for a hundred bucks a pop. And sell them to you at $400 bucks on up. So don't buy from them since they try to mask the truth. They are no better than snake oil salesmen.
Anybody able to give an objective comment on how Degree 33 boards ride?
My first guitar was laminate back and sides, made in Japan tough and inexpensive. Years later I bought an American made solid tone wood guitar. Same with my surfboard. "Popout" Degree 33/Stokes. Most folks get the issues: cheap exploited labor, moderate quality, durable, low price. A starter, then move up when you can afford and appreciate it and support the craft. All the hate in these posts is sad. Check where the sneakers/ tee shirts you wear are made, the cheap labor used to pick your fruit, how you treat people, on and on. Yes try to make a difference, but stay real.
Some firewire models are pretty sick. They may be "pop-outs" but these boards can go (there have been flawed models though). I have seen local shapers boards with an uneven concave and the like, so hand shaped doesn't always mean quality. That being said a quality shaper is unbeatable, but those can be hard to find.
Degree 33 appears to be very deceitful and a total kook land.
They trick people and their customer service sucks if you don't live in Cal. I got screwed royally and found out through that experience (board arrived cracked) that their foam is the cheap beady Styrofoam that cannot be hand shaped, in my opinion. They claim their boards are hand shaped from start to finish...really? They make them in CHINA and they have this picture frame process on their website, showing an Asian guy shaping a board. They never admit the boards come from China and they claim their boards are shaped by the same shapers who shape Rusty and other major brands!! I warn you. Don't support this pop out business. These people are not surfers, they are business yupies.
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